We all :)
Which as usually converts to no one.

CBoltz is trying to initiate some activity for the wiki CSS, which will make
css file even bigger, but pages will be more uniform. Response is not
inspiring and that is his second attempt to improve wiki templates/css.

I don't live from any web or IT related activity, so I can't be effective as
people that do that for living. On things that I can't give a patch, which is
majority, I file a bug report with enough details to reproduce. After some
time and few answers that are looking for someone else to jump in, I got tired
even from reporting.

In this list I see a lot of people willing to help and not too many with
skills: https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/groups/14751/wiki-maintainers/ http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_team#Members

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Hmmm, interesting.  That would explain the lack of movement on it.

Looks like some recruitment might be in order - but I wonder where the
code originated from.

Jim

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That there some tool for CSS, like 'tidy' for HTML, whihc will factor
out and refactor and generally DRY-up things?

Google gives me

      http://csstidy.sourceforge.net/
      http://www.cleancss.com/
      https://github.com/geuis/helium-css

Has anyone tried them?
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Robert Lihm made initial css that was slightly changed later.
Now it is located at: https://gitorious.org/opensuse/
where you have to scroll trough bunch of titles to find those that you are
interested in.

I'll list later on the wiki all web design related stuff that I can find
there.

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Thanks!

Jim

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Check and see did I missed something.

http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Web_design_resources  

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That looks very useful, but the http(s) links should lose the '.git'
suffix - those links return 404s.

I assume the css is located in the 'shared-resources'?

Jim

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Fixed.

I don't know where it is.
I have to clone repos to local git repo to speed up browsing as preview works
only on a local copy :)  

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Thanks!

I'll take some time later this week to clone it and see if I can find
where it is.

I'm not a CSS expert by any stretch, so if we have someone who knows how
to fix it in the actual CSS (Felix, perhaps?) is there some place we can
test the changes out that you are aware of?  (I guess I'm asking 'do we
have a staging server?')

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Not really.
There is, but it is not accessible from outside of corporate network.

Also, there are plans to move services hosted by Novell to SUSE, which is what
I'm waiting for. Currently, even low hanging fruits are waiting to be fixed.


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On 2011/10/17 22:03 (GMT) Jim Henderson composed:

Normally I could and would like to help, but the complexity of its 155k
weight puts it well beyond my capability or interest. 155k is roughly 5X the
most CSS any site ought to need, and probably requires someone completely
devoted to the task to understand and manage. IMO, starting from scratch is
most likely appropriate here.
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I know that's been the case for a while - really since ACS took over the
IS&T side of things (in some cases - not sure if that's entirely the
issue for the SUSE side of things).

Does this plan to move services involve relocating some from the US to
Germany, that you're aware of?

Jim
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Perhaps the thing to do would be to start from scratch then, perhaps
propose a set of CSS that has a similar look/feel but without the
accessibility issues?

That would really help get things moving forward, I think - Rajko, what
do you think?

Jim

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I'm not sure what is ACS.
On wiki side of things we had good and very engaged admin (Matthew Ehle) for a
while, but since he left there was no much activity.

I know very little, to be honest. This is all I know: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Server_move https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=683969  

Also, there is opensuse-web*******that would be right place to talk
about this. At least it will see some traffic :)

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Starting from scratch is possible, but it is huge task that will not work
without consensus from many involved. There are multiple web sites with
different software behind and current status, even when not perfect, is result
of a lot of work.

As Felix mentioned it will require long term devotion and quite good skills to
redesign that all.

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Hello,

They're not that many anyway, much remained in .de when SUSE was
bought by Novell. A little digging with traceroute and whois on
some relevant hosts tells me that e.g. the subdomains/hosts:

www, en, news (all 130.57.4.24), forums (130.57.4.15)

are reached (from here, and now) via

11  0.so-5-1-0.XT2.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.1.138)
12  POS7-0.GW3.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.72.73)
13  unknown.customer.alter.net (65.206.183.22)
14  192.94.118.247

so seem to be hosted at a Novell.com site in Denver, USA.

The subdomains/hosts:

login, features (195.135.221.133), lists (195.135.221.135), software
(195.135.221.150), download (195.135.221.134), build
(195.135.221.133), bugs, doc (195.135.221.140), connect
(195.135.221.34), static (195.135.221.143), the last of which is
notable as it hosts static webcontent (e.g. graphics) for www and the
<LANG> subsites etc.

are all reached (from here, and now) via
7  Tenge1-2-56.cr2.NBG2.content-core.net (212.123.123.213)
8  fe-5-1-4.nue1-inet-cisco2.suse.de (212.123.111.28)

so they all are at the SUSE site in Nuremburg, Germany ("NBG" is a
common abbreviation for Nuremburg and NUE is the IATA-Code for the
airport Nürnberg (Nuremberg)).

I haven't looked up by/via what host(s) the Novell ICS login for
bugzilla etc. is handled.

Remember: all those hosts/IPs might be loadbalanced and whatnot.

So, I guess, there are not that many services to be moved anyway.

HTH,
-dnh

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That geolocation is probably incorrect, as I tihnk most of those
(certainly the 130.57 addresses) are in the Novell DMZ in Provo.

forums.novell.com is also in that area - for both the web and NNTP
interfaces.  However, they're leveraging existing infrastructure, so not
sure that they should/would be moved.

That's probably the case.

Jim

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Sorry, ACS = Affiliated Computer Services (now a division of Xerox).  A
couple of years ago, Novell outsourced a large portion of their IS&T to
ACS.

Agree, I'll look and see if that list is on gmane and sub it if it
isn't.  That is a much better place (or the project list would be, too,
for that matter - perhaps highlighting Robert's discussion point on the
project list)

Jim

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All of that is true.  We really need to find a good CSS expert who can
design something that's lightweight and works more or less universally
without a lot of tweaking.

I think probably the best approach is to find someone with the necessary
skills, have them develop something with a similar look and feel to what
we have (without the accessibility issues), and use that as a base.  If
we start by trying to redesign the entire CSS from scratch and by
committee, it'll never get done.

Indeed.

Perhaps best to move this over to the web list as discussed elsewhere in
this thread.

Jim
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As Robert already started general discussion about improvements we can use
that to add ideas, but when general part is done there further discussion
related to web presence should happen on opensuse-web.

As mentioned I Robert's email, wiki list should be merged to web list, to put
together all people that know something about web. Wiki list served fine when
wiki was the only type of web presence, now it is just standing in the way.

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Sounds good, thanks. :)

Jim

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