Hi,

There have been some statements on these lists, there had even been
definition of "we".

Has there been a discussion about adding a page to the website around
goals of the project and how the project is run? Especially with
regard to patch-reviews, feature requests, and bug reports. Even a
general guidance would be most helpful to the community.

But then again even community engagement is dependant on the goals of
the project & developers. Although anyone on this list would
understand the level of engagement; it would be helpful to those
looking at the project as to whether the software is right for their
use if they understood the project goals... or at least I would have
thought

R

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces*******
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces*******] On Behalf Of Richard Morton
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 7:51 AM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: [mythtv-users] Goals and Aspirations of MythTV

Hi,

There have been some statements on these lists, there had even been
some words which may have been best not said; especially around the
definition of "we".

Has there been a discussion about adding a page to the website around
goals of the project and how the project is run? Especially with
regard to patch-reviews, feature requests, and bug reports. Even a
general guidance would be most helpful to the community.

But then again even community engagement is dependant on the goals of
the project & developers. Although anyone on this list would
understand the level of engagement; it would be helpful to those
looking at the project as to whether the software is right for their
use if they understood the project goals... or at least I would have
thought

R
_______________________________________________

If you follow -dev or -commits you could see what is going on and being
developed in separate branches so as to not hose the trunk if anything goes
wrong. -commits will also allow you to monitor everything that gets changed,
added, or fixed as well.

At this moment there are 2 highly active branches of the trunk. One is
libmythui-osd being worked on by Mark Kendall. The aim of this branch is to
bring the recent mythui changes into the OSD. Another thing this branch is
doing is moving the overlay into other, previously unused, areas. For
example when using VDPAU your OSD can display in the VDPAU space as opposed
to having to be an OpenGL or other type of overlay.

The other branch which recently, May 3rd, was created is the hdaudio branch.
This one is being co-developed by Jean-Yves Avenard and FooBar. This branch
has been advertized as being used to add 7.1 audio, HD audio codec support
and other fixes, including pulse.

MarcT

Woof - that should be interesting ;)

--
Lindsay http://blackpaw.jalbum.net/home

Thanks for the response.

I am trying to get at how the barrier to entering the mythtv world can
be lowered... I think to find the information you need to have a good
idea that mythtv is going to add value to your home the investment in
time is too high.

Considering the international audience & tv standards, complex
configurations, the rapid development and innovation (VDPAU) this is a
tough nut to crack; but I am willing to give it a go. Is it acceptable
to start adding pages to the wiki?

Also there have been several statements about developers doing this as
a hobby; so in that case their setups and motivations are important to
the direction of the project. A biography page for the devs (and other
key community members) including motivations, reason continuing to be
a dev on Myth, areas of interest, their current configuration and the
configuration they are striving for (that is possible in a reasonable
timeframe. Would you each be willing to put a bio page on the wiki;
with a photo?

It would also be good to indicate key software components that are
dependencies of Myth. LinuxTV is a good example for hardware support.

These pieces of information would allow users to work out if the
developers (and others) will have (a significant) inclination to help
them sort issues... I know and appreciate the developers huge
contributions (I would be happy to donate some cash in addition to my
time to help out where I can, but there isn't a donate button! - I am
sure some dosh for some kit or web-hosting would come in handy).

Hey, I'm not trying to moan, I'm trying to help, but I dont want to
step where help isn't wanted; which comes back to the vision of the
project. Your thoughts?

R

The general user feature wishlists already exist on the wiki
( http://mythtv.org/wiki/Feature_Wishlist ).  Usually people start
contributing to MythTV by scratching their own itches.  There's some
capability they want, that does not exist, so they program it in.  If
you have no desired of your own and still want to contribute, those
pages can give you some ideas to work on, or inspire you to come up with
something new.  I've been trying to maintain those, keep them clean of
stuff that can already be done, indicate which ones can be done with a
bit of scripting, and remove stuff that can't or shouldn't be done.

There is also a page on trac for the official developer approved
wishlist ( http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/FutureDevelopment ).  I updated
it earlier today to include any major tasks that I've heard developers
are working on, plan to work on, or think should be worked on, based off
chatter in #mythtv.

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces*******
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces*******] On Behalf Of Richard Morton
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:46 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Goals and Aspirations of MythTV

Thanks for the response.

I am trying to get at how the barrier to entering the mythtv world can
be lowered... I think to find the information you need to have a good
idea that mythtv is going to add value to your home the investment in
time is too high.

Considering the international audience & tv standards, complex
configurations, the rapid development and innovation (VDPAU) this is a
tough nut to crack; but I am willing to give it a go. Is it acceptable
to start adding pages to the wiki?

Also there have been several statements about developers doing this as
a hobby; so in that case their setups and motivations are important to
the direction of the project. A biography page for the devs (and other
key community members) including motivations, reason continuing to be
a dev on Myth, areas of interest, their current configuration and the
configuration they are striving for (that is possible in a reasonable
timeframe. Would you each be willing to put a bio page on the wiki;
with a photo?

It would also be good to indicate key software components that are
dependencies of Myth. LinuxTV is a good example for hardware support.

These pieces of information would allow users to work out if the
developers (and others) will have (a significant) inclination to help
them sort issues... I know and appreciate the developers huge
contributions (I would be happy to donate some cash in addition to my
time to help out where I can, but there isn't a donate button! - I am
sure some dosh for some kit or web-hosting would come in handy).

Hey, I'm not trying to moan, I'm trying to help, but I dont want to
step where help isn't wanted; which comes back to the vision of the
project. Your thoughts?

R
_______________________________________________

Most of this has been covered before, a search of the lists should have
brought up a lot of answers for you. Maybe not all in one place thou.

Regarding the ease of setting up a myth system $ and time investments:
As many people will tell you, MythTV can be setup fairly quickly. All you
need for a backend is an old desktop(possibly free if you didn't throw out
your old one), a capture device($100 to $250, depends on which model you
decide on), and access to Linux and an install guide(free). Some people use
the system on a disk method(novice, fastest to start from scratch), others
use JYA(moderate), and others forge their own path with their distro of
preference(expert). Not to knock anyone but the parentheses are my opinion
of the experience needed to install. The last two options can potentially
take the longest as you need to get a working Linux install before
installing MythTV, unless you already have a working system that you plan to
install on.

Frontend wise you need something with a halfway decent video card. I
recommend the equivalent of a GeForce 5700 or higher.
For a frontend you are not limited to Linux, as you can build for OSX and
Windows. The frontend can be run on the same machine as the backend or on
another dedicated system.
A combo server is the cheapest route. But I would recommend an Atom/Ion
system. A Revo, IONITX, or similar would suffice.

Note: To my knowledge the backend does not work on the other OS's, someone
correct me if I am wrong. I have always run a Linux backend. I have tried
out the Windows frontend a few times but I stick to Linux as my primary.

As for making myth run for your country of choice:
All you need is to configure the program for your language preference.
Capturing is done by the capture device you chose which also should have
been chosen for your specific needs, capture medium as well as broadcast
type.

Info about the developers:  http://mythtv.org/wiki/Category:MythDevelopers
Some names have links to more details, but I think their work speaks for
itself. I wouldn't question the developers intentions. What they do they do
for the betterment of the project. Sometimes things get taken away, but
If you want them to focus more on Myth, offer to pay their salaries.
Otherwise, let them work their paying job and work on Myth in their free
time. I think they are doing a great job as it is.

Dependencies? Look at any of the distros that use a packaging type of
system. They all have information about what Myth depends on. If you want to
build from source, http://mythtv.org/wiki/Dependencies_ (Building_from_source) Or if you use
Gentoo which builds from source anyway I have an overlay, http://wiki.github.com/MarcT/mt-mythtv/

MarcT http://mythtv.org/wiki/User:MarcT

Consider yourself corrected!  ;-)  A few of us masochists are running the ackend on Mac OS X.  Mine's been up for over two years...

Craig

The backend runs fine on OSX, the problem is lack of video input support.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Wagner" <raymond*******>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users*******>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Goals and Aspirations of MythTV

_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users*******
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Might I suggest it maybe worth appending some sort of search line such as,but not necessarily
" http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/"  to the standard footer?  Aother more neutral option might be a link to a wiki page
that summarises searching options for newbs?     Other search examples incude the wiki, (Perhaps a "how to" search page not yet
written?)   http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/roadmap  and of course google for myttv and whatever else.  The footer email address line may
also be redundant.

As Bill Wobblestick would say "aye, and there's the rub!".

As someone who has built a couple of Mythtv systems over the years, the
remaining awful, risky, painful, tedious, "must-be-a-tech-geek" area is
finding a tuner card that works.  I'm talking DVB-T here folks, not analog
inputs.

If you look at LinuxTV and Mythtv and other wikis there is lots of great
information about tuners that you can no longer buy, or are PCI when your
system only has PCI-E slots.  TO find out about actual support you need to
delve into the linuxtv mailing lists, and/or read the source code for
comments like "Scumby XYZ tuner (revision E) is now supported, revision F
sold in the same packaging and indistinguishable from revision E until you
plug it onto your system is not now, and never will be supported".

The mythtv developers have done a great job to make mythtv reasonably
simple to implement, and can't be blamed for the tuner fiasco we see now.
Proprietary chips, internal changes to tuners where chipsets are changed
with no change in external name or packaging of the tuner card/USB stick,
all these and more are the blight on the world of Mythtv.

I've tried to do my bit and update the LinuxTV wiki with my experiences,
but again the tuners I have working now are not that accessible or useful
(PCI- no longer sold, USB- one of 2 tuners on the Pinnacle USB stick
works).

Maybe we should approach one of the smaller manufacturers to get some
"certified for Mythtv" cards/USB sticks.  If all Mythtv users used just
that product it might be enough quantity to get their interest.

Maybe Mythtv needs a "report my installation" which would (say) every 6
months ask you if it can send back a snapshot of the tuner cards in
people's systems, as well as giving us an idea of the # of mythtv users in
various countries.  WIth some real number then we might be able to make a
case to hardware manufacturers.

Maybr a good idea is like what the pc magazine do; What hardware would
you buy if you wanted to spend $2,000, $1,000 and $500 on a MythTV
solution and then update this "pricepoint configuration" every 6 months
or so as technology changed.









Cheers,

Dean

OK, I'll have a crack.  I think some are misunderstanding what you are
asking.

You're looking to create an overview page for myth, on the wiki.  You're
thinking that it would be useful for new myth users, or even those just
considering myth.  It would explain:
- why myth exists
- what it can, and cannot, do
- what it does today, what it will do in the future, what it will never
do
- who the devs are, and how large that community is
- what kinds of things the devs are doing with myth - on the logic that
if you want to do something similar to them, it'll probably work or get
good support.  If you want to do something vastly different, you might be
more on your own

For my 10c, I think that could be useful.  But I wonder whether places
like wikipedia might be good places to put some of that base info once
collated - certainly that's where I would expect many first time users /
those considering a media centre for the first time to end up.  Some of the
information (particularly about the devs and their configurations) I agree
could be interesting on the core mythtv wiki.

I also note your willingness to donate, and the lack of somewhere to
donate to.  I see one earlier contributor suggesting helping to pay the
donate, but that there doesn't seem to be a way to do so.  I have noticed
that getting some sorts of support - for example, hardware support - can be
expedited by purchasing the hardware you're interested in, and then
shipping it to someone on the dev list who might have interest in actually
getting it working.  Typically that's more of a V4L thing than a myth thing
anyway.

Anyway, I'd be supportive, but then I'm not really a dev (unless you count
a couple of minor fixes).  Those more involved in the project may have
different views.  I'd also have a good surf of the wiki that is there -
there is a lot of content if you have a good look.  Maybe just a bit of a
cleanse of the wiki itself, and in particular a page or a structure that
lets people find what's already there?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces*******
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces*******] On Behalf Of Raymond Wagner
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 10:36 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Goals and Aspirations of MythTV

On 5/9/2010 22:29, Craig Treleaven wrote:
> At 10:04 PM -0400 5/9/10, MarcT wrote:
>  
>> Note: To my knowledge the backend does not work on the other OS's,
someone
>> correct me if I am wrong.
>>    
> Consider yourself corrected!  ;-)  A few of us masochists are running the
backend on Mac OS X.  Mine's been up for over two years...
>  

The backend runs fine on OSX, the problem is lack of video input support.
_______________________________________________

Ok, I I have been corrected. But I was sort of implying a working backend
with capture devices. Sounds like an OSX backend cant capture anything.

MarcT

From: mythtv-users-bounces*******
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces*******] On Behalf Of Indulis Bernsteins
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 1:12 AM
To: mythtv-users*******
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Goals and Aspirations of MythTV



> As for making myth run for your country of choice:
> All you need is to configure the program for your language preference.
> Capturing is done by the capture device you chose which also should have
> been chosen for your specific needs

If you look at LinuxTV and Mythtv and other wikis there is lots of great
information about tuners that you can no longer buy, or are PCI when your
system only has PCI-E slots.  TO find out about actual support you need to
delve into the linuxtv mailing lists, and/or read the source code for
comments like "Scumby XYZ tuner (revision E) is now supported, revision F
sold in the same packaging and indistinguishable from revision E until you
plug it onto your system is not now, and never will be supported".

Maybe Mythtv needs a "report my installation" which would (say) every 6
months ask you if it can send back a snapshot of the tuner cards in people's
systems, as well as giving us an idea of the # of mythtv users in various
countries.  WIth some real number then we might be able to make a case to
hardware manufacturers.





There is a problem there with your comment.

Generally MythTV does not support the capture device, it supports the
interface to the capture device, with a few exceptions, firewire to STB,
hdhomerun, etc. The hardware is generally supported by the OS itself. If you
can get it identified by your OS then myth is usually able to find it and
use it.



But I understand what you are talking about finding a card. My system is
primarily composed of AirStar HD-5000's(Air2PC 5th gen) and I'm looking for
a 4th to replace my analog card. They can still be bought, http://www.bbti.us/products_airstar_hd5000_pci.htm  I spoke with the their
sales department however and was informed they no longer sell one offs and
only sell in quantity now, I didn't ask what quantity. They make the exact
number that was ordered and don't leave any on their warehouse shelves. They
did take my name thou, and said they would contact me if they get an order
for them, they might be able to run an extra and sell to me. However, it has
been several months, and I haven't heard from them.



The idea of a anonymous report from users have been vetted in the past, and
I believe shot down. And it was going to be used for the same sort of
information.



MarcT

I use the HDHomerun and a number of people report success with firewire cature devices.

Craig

An OSX backend can capture over Firewire, ATSC/QAM-64/QAM-256, DVB-T/C,
and IPTV. You can not capture DVB-S or nor any encrypted DVB, and you
can not capture analog video of any sort (so no HD-PVR). For ATSC/QAM
and DVB-T/C you need a HDHomeRun of the correct sort, the others are
supported by hardware built into the Macintosh.

While there is no choice of hardware, it's unfair to say you can not
record any media on OSX.

-- Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces*******
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces*******] On Behalf Of Daniel Kristjansson
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:58 AM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Goals and Aspirations of MythTV

On Mon, 2010-05-10 at 06:45 -0400, MarcT wrote:
> The backend runs fine on OSX, the problem is lack of video input support.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Ok, I I have been corrected. But I was sort of implying a working backend
> with capture devices. Sounds like an OSX backend cant capture anything.

An OSX backend can capture over Firewire, ATSC/QAM-64/QAM-256, DVB-T/C,
and IPTV. You can not capture DVB-S or nor any encrypted DVB, and you
can not capture analog video of any sort (so no HD-PVR). For ATSC/QAM
and DVB-T/C you need a HDHomeRun of the correct sort, the others are
supported by hardware built into the Macintosh.

While there is no choice of hardware, it's unfair to say you can not
record any media on OSX.

-- Daniel

_______________________________________________

I stand corrected. My ignorance is twofold, I don't use OSX and I must have
misinterpreted the reply I received.

MarcT