Well, not exactly now but at lease Adobe flash is dead for all mobile
devices:

Adobe confirms Flash Player is dead for mobile devices http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/09/adobe-confirms-flash-play[..]
for-mobile-devices/

Steve Jobs wins: Flash being phased out from mobile devices http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1083764--steve-jobs-[..]
being-phased-out-from-mobile-devices

Adobe flash is one of the tech-inventions that I resent the most.
Now it is dead for all mobiles, and I wish it is dead on the web tomorrow.

Comments?

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Archive: http://lists.debian.org/j9eg6d$ves$1*******

And what do you use for flashplayer?

Hugo

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/j9el2s$7bu$1*******

Why do Linux distros consider it desirable to install Gnash by default?
I understand the desire to have a free flash player but Gnash is a very
poor implementation and I think it tarnishes Linux's image rather than
enhances it.

Its buggy, a lot of content it cant display, or displays improperly. You
often end up with ads jammed over the main content of the page because
Gnash has drawn them in totally the wrong place, it causes browsers to
crash and last night I was puzzled as to why my CPU fan was going full
throttle after upgrading wheezy. A quick look at the process list
revealed Gnash had been re-installed and was thrashing all 4 CPU cores
just displaying a web ad.

A newcomer to Linux would think this was the best the platform could
offer, when in reality theyre far better off installing the 'real' Adobe
player. OK it may be closed source but closed source isnt all evil and
hats off to Adobe for actually making a Linux version which is pretty
damn good if you give it a chance.

Id be happy to see Gnash dead.

Interesting question. Which distributions do that?

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/j9emv4$4rm$1*******

Interesting question. Which distributions do that?

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/j9emv3$4rn$1*******

I don't get it. There are lots of distros that do offer the proprietary
stuff by default. There are choices on this platform. Users should make
the ones that suit them best, and be satisfied with letting each distro
proceed according to its stated philosophy. (There are distros that
consider Debian too "liberal" with respect to licensing issues. They
offer NO repository support for proprietary software at all.)

If you want Gnash dead, you can just let it be dead on your system. The
default Debian installation gives you the ability to use the contents of
the non-free and contrib repositories by default. (I disallow both of
them them from my sources.list file during the expert installation
process.) Or you can go with something like Ubuntu or Mint where the
Adobe player and reader and other stuff are officially supported in the
distro.

I happen to appreciate the efforts of those who develop Gnash and
wouldn't want them (or the devs on the alternative free player
technologies) to cease their efforts. GNU/Linux is about having choices,
not about limiting all of the distros to be the same, and forcing all of
them to do what people with one particular bent want to see in an OS.

Anyway, I doubt that a lot of newbies wander into Debian or Fedora or
Arch, etc. Newbies can get the Adobe stuff right up front in the distros
they're probably most likely to choose.

Oh, and if your system was maxing out four cores trying to display an
ad, you might be concerned about the way your browser is configured.
Maybe a little customization by way of plugins or alteration of browser
settings is in order? There are some very nice capabilities these days
that prevent that sort of nonsense from being a problem. I don't see ads
anywhere I go on the Web -- unless I specifically allow them.

Regards,
Gilbert

Archive:  

You're 100% right, but please bottom post in the future.  thanx.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides.
--A. M. Greeley

Archive:  

Why bother with non-free software when we're talking about a technology
that's dying like BSD these days?

Because right now, realistically it's the only game in town if one wants
to watch flash content. When HTML5 comes along and I am able to get rid
of /usr/lib64/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so I shall be only too
delighted. Until then, one has to be pragmatic.

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/j9f6p4$5eu$3*******

There are many ways to be pragmatic.  Nowadays, Gnash works well enough
for me that my notion of "pragmatic" is simply "say good bye to
web-sites which are too poor to work with Gnash".

        Stefan

Archive:  

Ummm, can't wait till gnash is setting the pace, rather than being an
implementation generation or two behind, which is all I see holding it
up, but BSD is generating programmes that Debian would do well to look
at:

http://www.bsdcertification.org/

while the latest pre-release version of PC-BSD has an implementation
very much like apt for up-dating, among other advanced features.

http://www.pcbsd.org/

Definitely not drowning and conceivably even stealing a march.
Regards,

Weaver.

--
"In a world without walls and fences,
what need have we for Windows or Gates?"
-Anon.

Archive:  

Ummm, can't wait till gnash is setting the pace, rather than being an
implementation generation or two behind, which is all I see holding it
up, but BSD is generating programmes that Debian would do well to look
at:

http://www.bsdcertification.org/

while the latest pre-release version of PC-BSD has an implementation
very much like apt for up-dating, among other advanced features.

http://www.pcbsd.org/

Definitely not drowning and conceivably even stealing a march.
Regards,

Weaver.

--
"In a world without walls and fences,
what need have we for Windows or Gates?"
-Anon.

Archive:  

Which would be nice, but kind of impossible. Gnash is a Ffflash player -
so all it can do is (try) and implement the latest Ffflash features.
Originally SmartSketch there are now a number of "free" Ffflash creation
tools - but Adobe, through it's "branding" pretty much controls the
market. Sadly.`
I suspect that won't change until employers find all the new graphic
artists insist on using HTML5, or a free Flash alternative. And that's
not likely until schools, uni's etc start basing the training around
those. That and consumers avoiding Ffflash infested sites, forcing
companies to change the site content.

1. Debian certification programmes a la LPI would (I believe) be a very
good thing. Though difficult to incorporate into the Debian community
and Social contract.

2. You're obviously unaware of Debian-kFreeBSD:- http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/
All the simplicity and stability of FreeBSD with the power of apt.

Sadly few know of it - and many still parrot Matt Damon's jest about BSD
dying (because he was resigning). Definitely worth a look (we use it
extensively):- http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=debia[..]

<snipped>

Cheers

--
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Archive:  

'cause people like it when their systems...work?

Mike

I like watching youtube videos. Silverlight is a problem for me on Linux, so I
find flash to be a good thing by comparison, unless I want to live with my
head stuck in the ground.

Mike

Well you've set a very inflammable topic there.

My feeling is that Google and it's jump into the mobile thing has been a
strong propellant to HTML5 and thus flash slowly dying. But at the same
time youtube which is both one of google's big things and *the* flash
site per excellence is still very 'betqaish' with html5, not to mention
all the other video hosting sites.

One of the problems I still see is the video codecs 'war'. We have this
wonderful <video> tag, but nobody knows what exaclty to encode the video
file in. Now if you have millions of videos to (re)encode that is not
trivial question. I guess it'll need time to settle, like if you're
putting a <img> tag you know the source is going to be .jpg, .png or
legacy .gif and that 99% browsers will support it - today (by the way it
looks like Internet Explora only supported full alpha in png at verions
7! [1]).

Lorenzo.

[1]  http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngapbr.html#msie-win-unix

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I will still be reading my libero.it email, but please use this new one
for any further email.
Thanks you for understanding.
** NOTA **: Questo indirizzo gmail è la mia nuova email.
Continuerò a leggere la posta libero.it ancora per un po' ma vi prego di
usare questa nuova da ora in poi.
Grazie per la comprensione.

Archive:  

Choices are nice :-)

http://www.youtube.com/html5

(let youtube/google know *you* would prefer a choice).

Cheers

--
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Archive:  

Debian of course :)

Regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-[..]

It didn't for me when I installed Squeeze. Maybe I did it differently.

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/j9g3ke$kcd$1*******

And of course, there's always youtube-dl, cclive, etc.

Celejar
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Archive:  

In ubuntu flash is working with google-chrome or firefox. What should I install in debian to
support that ?

Thaanks

Archive:  

Nice link. I'm using Squeeze so I have FF 3.5. I could update outside of the
.deb package though to something more recent.

Remember when Firefox was going to be the lightweight browser? :)

Mike

when they work...

fetch config ...done.
verify video link ...error: libquvi: server returned http/404

I get that for cclive on every url...

and I don't see youtube-dl packaged for squeeze.

Mike

You must be using a different YouTube than me. I have had very little
in the way of problems with HTML5 on YT, and nothing recently. Not
all videos are available in HTML5 yet, but fallback has been seamless.

Well, for <video> it would help a lot if there was just one, but two covers
all possibilities: WebM and h.264 are all that is needed. And if you
are willing to make users install a codec plugin, WebM works across
the desktop at least (not sure about mobile, but it should work).

Cheers,
Kelly Clowers

Archive:  

Thanks for the link, didn't know about that.

Cheers,
Tom

--
Mike:    "The Fourth Dimension is a shambles?"
Bernie:    "Nobody ever empties the ashtrays.  People are SO inconsiderate."
        -- Gary Trudeau, "Doonesbury"

A .deb package for firefox? Where?

--
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279

Debian isn't a dictatorship distribution.  It does not have one person
with a single vision directing it in a single direction.  Debian is a
community of a thousand developers who all contribute to the common
goal.  This means Debian is more like a small town that holds regular
town meetings in the town hall.  Everyone has a different opinion.
Everyone has a voice for their opinion.  Some people think it should
be this way.  Some people think it should be that way.  Discussion is
held.  Eventually a consensus is reached.  Most of the time a
con-census is reached.  Sometimes people simply have irreconcilable
differences and can only agree to disagree.  It is like real people in
a real small town.  It is real people.  But in a virtual town hall.

   http://www.debian.org/intro/about

Debian has many core values.  But one of the most important values is
that it is a _free_ operating system.  Free in this case means freedom
and not without cost.  Because Debian values freedom so highly this
means that Debian can't include some nonfree components in the
system.  Adobe's Flash player isn't distributable under a free(dom)
license.  This is deeply important to a core value of Debian.  It is
more important to Debian than other values such as interoperating with
popular proprietary programs such as Adobe Flash.

   http://www.debian.org/social_contract

What do you do in that case?  Do you avoid GNU Flash gnash too simply
because it isn't as good as the Adobe version?  But then you miss out
on being able to view this content.  And for people that are in the
targeted audience of users who want only a totally free(dom) operating
system should they be negatively impacted by avoiding gnash.

And what about users of other architectures?  The 64-bit amd64 is very
popular.  Yet Adobe has a very poor history of supporting it.  ARM is
in quite a bit if use and I think will only increase in popularity.
Adobe has a very poor history of supporting any architecture other
than 32-bit x86.  But Debian has been called the Universal Operating
System.  For users who wish the same system across multiple
architectures it would be hard to find a better implementation than
Debian.  Those users are in the target audience of Debian and also
would like the best flash player available and at this moment the best
flash player available for them is GNU Flash gnash.

I think Debian has made reasonable choices.  GNU Flash gnash is
available if you wish it.  If not then you are able to install the
Adobe Flash with very little effort.  It is nonfree and cannot be part
of Debian but a free installer is provided in the contrib section.

Really this more than anything illustrates that nonfree programs and
protocols are bad for us.  It is important to prevent nonfree software
from being required.  This is what makes the need for HTML5 to be
completely free so important.  We can correct the mistakes that were
exploited that has caused so much trouble for so many people.

Bob

The Debian Mozilla team makes Firefox deb packages available for
Stable that tracks the current release.

   http://mozilla.debian.net/

Bob

Not sure I understand the question, but if you mean what do you need to
get Adobe Flash working with Iceweasel / Firefox, the answer is
'flashplugin-nonfree'.

Celejar
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Archive:  

Beats me - they usually work for me (I usually use youtube-dl), except
for when YouTube changes the site, and then it can take a bit for them
to be updated for the new layout.

Celejar
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Archive:  

Since youtube.com changes their format too often for stable releases
it is really problematic for some tools like youtube-dl to be packaged
in Stable.  I think it would do much better if it were released in
squeeze-updates (the new volatile).  But it isn't.  I wish it were.

Because of this I always use the youtube-dl from Sid.  It is a script.
It only depends upon ffmpeg being installed.  It runs just fine on
Stable for me so far.  YMMV.  But I use the Sid script on all of my
Squeeze machines.  I update it as needed when youtube.com changes and
breaks the downloader.

Bob

And ffmpeg is not even a hard dependency, only a recommends (not sure
what happens if ffmpeg isn't there, since I keep it on my system for
other things, anyway).

Celejar
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Archive:  

The reason for this, as stated by the maintainer of youtube-dl himself,
is given in this post:

     http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/12/msg00433.html

But the wheezy version appears to be working well in squeeze.

Archive:  

Nothing about FF here or in any of the backport sites I looked at. Sure
you didn't mean iceweasel?

--
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279

Perhaps you were not aware that Debian Iceweasel is for all practical
purposes Firefox?

Here are some references to backfill the entire very long story, years
in the making, a cast of thousands, and that type of thing.

   http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/10/msg00665.html

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_re[..]

Bob

I'm quite familiar with this. The problem is you specified FF and my
crystal ball blew a transistor last week.

--
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279

$ apt-cache rdepends browser-plugin-gnash
browser-plugin-gnash
Reverse Depends:
  task-desktop
  gnome
  swfdec-mozilla
  mozilla-plugin-gnash
  gnash-dbg
  task-desktop
  gnome
  swfdec-mozilla
  mozilla-plugin-gnash

A default install should pull gnash via the task-desktop dependency.

Kind regards,
Andrei
--
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Big +1 :)

Regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-[..]

And it didn't for me when I installed Lenny.  I have just installed it
manually.  I have not got task-desktop, so do not need its
dependencies.

lisi@Junior:~$ aptitude search task-desktop
lisi@Junior:~$

Lisi

Archive:  

I think swf-dec, rather than gnash, was the default on Lenny.

-Rob

Archive:  

No - I haven't got that either.

Lisi

Archive:  

That's correct. Lenny shipped "swfdec-mozilla" package:

sm01@stt008:~$ cat /etc/*version
5.0.9

sm01@stt008:~$ dpkg -l | grep swfdec-mozilla
ii  swfdec-mozilla                       0.6.0-5       Mozilla plugin for SWF files (Macromedia Fla

Greetings,

--
Camaleón

Archive:  

Keep in mind that the desktop task isn't a package, it's a task (as in tassel):

cbell@circe:~$ tasksel --list-tasks
i desktop    Graphical desktop environment
u web-server    Web server
i print-server    Print server
u dns-server    DNS server
u file-server    File server
i mail-server    Mail server
u database-server    SQL database
i ssh-server    SSH server
i laptop    Laptop
u manual    manual package selection
cbell@circe:~$

The "i" indicates it's installed.

--
Chris

Archive:  

Given it's stability, i wouldn't define what flash does on any platform
as "work."